This is truly troubling. It also raises a broader issue - can any organisation be truly independent, particularly of socio-political trends or cultural influences, however misguided and subjective? Ultimately we need leadership at the top, which we lack, and willingness to engage in difficult conversations, which is also in short supply. The end result is that a small number of intolerant, aggressive activists, enemies of free thought and free speech, have managed to either blackmail or infiltrate so many institutions.
Excellent article except I don’t think it helps our cause to presume that KJK was advocating shooting Trans women in women’s loos. I don’t think anyone can presume that. She made a throw away comment in US about getting men who “carry” to police women’s bathrooms. That is not the same as advocating for shooting trans women. We have to stop giving equivalence to these comments. A convicted felon stood on a stage and recommended the crowd punch terfs in the f-ing face. That is a direct incitement to violence. KJK made no equivalent direct incitement of violence and she should not be used as a convenient patsy for the “civilised” women’s rights movement.
What doesn’t help our cause is anyone within it advocating violence. Suggesting men should go armed into female toilets is bloody stupid. I can’t condemn with any integrity the violence of men like Baker if I don’t also condemn stupid and dangerous suggestions like this from women.
You’re right - it was not the best comment by KJK but it was not against the law and it was not a direct incitement to violence. It was a response to threats of violence by trans women who said they would physically assert their right to use women’s spaces by any means necessary. KJK’s comment was made in that context as a (not great) suggestion for
defending women’s spaces. There is more than one interpretation, so you can’t “only presume she’s suggesting shooting trans women in women’s bathrooms” as that is the worst possible take, more worthy of the trans activist false narrative than our side of the debate. It’s a point that could have been made differently so that the reputation of another is not unnecessarily damaged, and the lie that “Terfs” are violent/advocating violence is not amplified....... I’m a huge admirer of your work so please don’t take my one issue with your piece as a wholesale criticism - please keep up the good work!
What other interpretation is available, when advising people to carry guns, that they should use them? I am a proud defender of freedom of speech. But it is not and cannot be an absolute right. Incitement to violence is where I draw the line.
Several interpretations are available, if she didn’t say “shoot trans women”, then any interpretation is inference. I would have interpreted it as suggesting men police women’s spaces because of threats of violence from trans activists (ie showing a gun is not the same as shooting one). If KJK had meant to say “shoot trans women” I strongly suspect that’s what she would have said. US Police carry guns, but don’t usually shoot people. Many US citizens carry guns but don’t usually shoot people. By deferring to Trans Activist view, it exposes KJK to yet more hatred and abuse, undeservedly. I agree her comment was both clumsy and unhelpful, but it was not incitement to violence.
You may support people’s rights to talk about bringing guns into a very fraught situation. I disagree with you, profoundly, but I won’t insult or threaten you for disagreeing with me. However I hope you can see clearly where and why I draw this line in the sand.
Great article, this is a disturbing development indeed.
Re the KJK comments, it's disappointing that you seem to be doing what the TRAs have done, and criticised what they think she said rather than what she actually said (like is often done to JKR).
There was no suggestion of carrying guns being a good idea, nor any incitement to violence. She was calling on 'men who carry and men who don't' to use women's toilets (if the women in there didn't mind) to highlight the absurdity of self ID and the resulting destruction of women's spaces.
FWIW I don't think that was a great idea.
She was suggesting that that was a more effective way to protect women rather than swanning around with a gun.
Please don't misquote her, that's doing TRAs work for them.
She's not everyone's cup of tea, but she's got the message out to a lot of people and doesn't deserve to be defamed.
You are correct that many U.S. citizens carry guns for self-protection or the protection of others in lawful circumstances and as a deterrent to nefarious characters who might be a problem--this is a right under the U.S. Constitution. Law-abiding citizens who carry guns are not the problem.
My reading of what KJK was suggesting was that in the absence of law enforcement doing its job a deterrent may be required. The problem is not w/ women who are angry and frustrated about their rights being ignored and disrespected it is w/ the police and the courts both of which refuse to enforce the law and those in gov't who sit idly by and do nothing about it. KJK has done an admirable job in dealing w/ the 'trans' issue and has exposed herself to real danger and shown courage and integrity that only a handful of other critical voices have--she is an inspiration to women and LGBs everywhere.
We need all voices in the fight for sanity re the pernicious and destructive 'trans' 'gender identity' agenda. KJK is a valued and appreciated woman's voice in the fight for women's and LGB's sex-based rights. And, esp., for the protection of minors and young adults to grow and mature w/o being pathologized and medicalized for simply being so-called gender non-conforming or otherwise different and/or at a vulnerable point in their lives.
I could not care less if it’s legal to carry guns. Suggesting that guns play any part in this is dangerous, stupid and wrong. It’s a gift to the ‘other side’. If you disagree with me, fine. I won’t threaten or insult you. But I won’t take you seriously. And I won’t consider you a benefit to ‘my side’.
I so wish that trans widows had a voice. "Sophie" Steven Cook is divorced twice and fathered at least 2 children. Like the ex-wife who is the mother of the children, I am a trans widow, whose ex-husband defames me when opportunity arises. Cook claims he helped his 11 and 15 year old work through the 7 stages of grief in less than an hour when he told them about his new cross-sex ideation project. Likely, the ex-wife and mother of the son and daughter is utterly silenced by Cook's advisement to the CPS. (interestingly, in the States, CPS is child protective services!) and it is likely she'll never have the opportunity to join with 42 of us trans widows in my survey, 20 Questions to Ask a Trans Widow. The physical assaults, the profligate spending, the alienation of friends/family by him, are censored exactly by this arrogant, demanding policy Cook recommended to the Prosecution Service. For any woman like me or like Cook's former wife, the survey:
This is truly troubling. It also raises a broader issue - can any organisation be truly independent, particularly of socio-political trends or cultural influences, however misguided and subjective? Ultimately we need leadership at the top, which we lack, and willingness to engage in difficult conversations, which is also in short supply. The end result is that a small number of intolerant, aggressive activists, enemies of free thought and free speech, have managed to either blackmail or infiltrate so many institutions.
Is the Manchester event still going ahead? My ticket was refunded, is it up somewhere else?
Been up on Ticket Tailor for 2 weeks. Now sold out but we will probably have no shows so give me you name and I will put you on a list.
Sent you dm on twitter - can't work it out on here
Excellent article except I don’t think it helps our cause to presume that KJK was advocating shooting Trans women in women’s loos. I don’t think anyone can presume that. She made a throw away comment in US about getting men who “carry” to police women’s bathrooms. That is not the same as advocating for shooting trans women. We have to stop giving equivalence to these comments. A convicted felon stood on a stage and recommended the crowd punch terfs in the f-ing face. That is a direct incitement to violence. KJK made no equivalent direct incitement of violence and she should not be used as a convenient patsy for the “civilised” women’s rights movement.
What doesn’t help our cause is anyone within it advocating violence. Suggesting men should go armed into female toilets is bloody stupid. I can’t condemn with any integrity the violence of men like Baker if I don’t also condemn stupid and dangerous suggestions like this from women.
You’re right - it was not the best comment by KJK but it was not against the law and it was not a direct incitement to violence. It was a response to threats of violence by trans women who said they would physically assert their right to use women’s spaces by any means necessary. KJK’s comment was made in that context as a (not great) suggestion for
defending women’s spaces. There is more than one interpretation, so you can’t “only presume she’s suggesting shooting trans women in women’s bathrooms” as that is the worst possible take, more worthy of the trans activist false narrative than our side of the debate. It’s a point that could have been made differently so that the reputation of another is not unnecessarily damaged, and the lie that “Terfs” are violent/advocating violence is not amplified....... I’m a huge admirer of your work so please don’t take my one issue with your piece as a wholesale criticism - please keep up the good work!
What other interpretation is available, when advising people to carry guns, that they should use them? I am a proud defender of freedom of speech. But it is not and cannot be an absolute right. Incitement to violence is where I draw the line.
Several interpretations are available, if she didn’t say “shoot trans women”, then any interpretation is inference. I would have interpreted it as suggesting men police women’s spaces because of threats of violence from trans activists (ie showing a gun is not the same as shooting one). If KJK had meant to say “shoot trans women” I strongly suspect that’s what she would have said. US Police carry guns, but don’t usually shoot people. Many US citizens carry guns but don’t usually shoot people. By deferring to Trans Activist view, it exposes KJK to yet more hatred and abuse, undeservedly. I agree her comment was both clumsy and unhelpful, but it was not incitement to violence.
You may support people’s rights to talk about bringing guns into a very fraught situation. I disagree with you, profoundly, but I won’t insult or threaten you for disagreeing with me. However I hope you can see clearly where and why I draw this line in the sand.
Great article, this is a disturbing development indeed.
Re the KJK comments, it's disappointing that you seem to be doing what the TRAs have done, and criticised what they think she said rather than what she actually said (like is often done to JKR).
There was no suggestion of carrying guns being a good idea, nor any incitement to violence. She was calling on 'men who carry and men who don't' to use women's toilets (if the women in there didn't mind) to highlight the absurdity of self ID and the resulting destruction of women's spaces.
FWIW I don't think that was a great idea.
She was suggesting that that was a more effective way to protect women rather than swanning around with a gun.
Please don't misquote her, that's doing TRAs work for them.
She's not everyone's cup of tea, but she's got the message out to a lot of people and doesn't deserve to be defamed.
You are correct that many U.S. citizens carry guns for self-protection or the protection of others in lawful circumstances and as a deterrent to nefarious characters who might be a problem--this is a right under the U.S. Constitution. Law-abiding citizens who carry guns are not the problem.
My reading of what KJK was suggesting was that in the absence of law enforcement doing its job a deterrent may be required. The problem is not w/ women who are angry and frustrated about their rights being ignored and disrespected it is w/ the police and the courts both of which refuse to enforce the law and those in gov't who sit idly by and do nothing about it. KJK has done an admirable job in dealing w/ the 'trans' issue and has exposed herself to real danger and shown courage and integrity that only a handful of other critical voices have--she is an inspiration to women and LGBs everywhere.
We need all voices in the fight for sanity re the pernicious and destructive 'trans' 'gender identity' agenda. KJK is a valued and appreciated woman's voice in the fight for women's and LGB's sex-based rights. And, esp., for the protection of minors and young adults to grow and mature w/o being pathologized and medicalized for simply being so-called gender non-conforming or otherwise different and/or at a vulnerable point in their lives.
I could not care less if it’s legal to carry guns. Suggesting that guns play any part in this is dangerous, stupid and wrong. It’s a gift to the ‘other side’. If you disagree with me, fine. I won’t threaten or insult you. But I won’t take you seriously. And I won’t consider you a benefit to ‘my side’.
This is so important. I hope the spirit of the Pankhursts is with you there in Manchester
I so wish that trans widows had a voice. "Sophie" Steven Cook is divorced twice and fathered at least 2 children. Like the ex-wife who is the mother of the children, I am a trans widow, whose ex-husband defames me when opportunity arises. Cook claims he helped his 11 and 15 year old work through the 7 stages of grief in less than an hour when he told them about his new cross-sex ideation project. Likely, the ex-wife and mother of the son and daughter is utterly silenced by Cook's advisement to the CPS. (interestingly, in the States, CPS is child protective services!) and it is likely she'll never have the opportunity to join with 42 of us trans widows in my survey, 20 Questions to Ask a Trans Widow. The physical assaults, the profligate spending, the alienation of friends/family by him, are censored exactly by this arrogant, demanding policy Cook recommended to the Prosecution Service. For any woman like me or like Cook's former wife, the survey:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RIPO4EtJG8&t=19s
We pay the same tax rate as men and need to demand the same service. Shocking behaviour. I presume KJK was being sarcastic but it makes sense kind of!